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Hi @genek, can you think of any instances where a Mainframe infrastructure team are practising in a DevOps organisation ?
Question for Gene: at the end of TUP, Maxine is thinking about rearchitecting the Data Hub using more of an event based approach. Can you talk more about that? I’m interested in what she is thinking about. Are there any real world examples you could point to?
<!here> FINAL AMA with Gene starts in 10 minutes!!!! Join live: https://zoom.us/j/658338387
1. Johan Tegler: A mix of questions: Technology. How common is that word these days compared to IT? In companies producing cars, planes etc technology can be a lot more. —A— Code vs databases. How much work in TUP is about developing code vs developing databases? It’s not so easy to have databases loosely coupled. Scott Ambler with Agile Data (and Disciplined Agile) has more info. —B— Different types of databases. Is there some idea of the mix of different databases in TUP, like relational, graph, doc, search etc? How is the mix? —C— Make or buy. How much of the IT systems in TUP are developed in house and how much is bought? Suppliers can give the impression that you can buy systems have the functions you need (ERP, MRP, MES, PLM etc). —D— Visualize the teams. Is there some diagrams of the teams and the org in TUP? To better see the team topologies. —E— “The wast architecture beneath”. A good phrase in the book. How can you improve the understanding of complex software, when you are not working as a developer? Many people often underestimate software 2. Johan Tegler: TUP and TPP have a big focus on DevOps with the IT department and the business. These books describe many things that are really important and new to many people. The Goal has a focus on manufacturing. —A— What novels (and non-fiction books) can be found today in a wider area (see areas below)? Does IT Rev plans for more novels here, or knows of others who have plans? —B— Area 1: From Parts Unlimited to Cars Unlimited. Or from DevOps to Industrial DevOps. Product development of cyber physical systems (CPS) is often complex and dependant on software. Feedback and testing can be a lot harder. —C— Area 2. From Parts Unlimited to Hospital/Government Unlimited. Hospitals and the public sector can be complex and dependant on software. —D— I think area 1 and 2 can learn a lot from TUP. In the book The Age of Agile, Steve Denning describe some of this but as a non-fiction. 3. Georgii Ivankin: Copying from the discussions: what amuses me is how little attention is paid to Maxine’s family (at chapter 9 now). And she has kids! It seems she is not seeing them at all with all the overwork and hangouts at the bar. I wonder if this is on purpose and will change when they fix things in Parts Unlimited. However, this work-life imbalance isn’t explicit, like it was in TPP (or was it The Goal?). Can you comment on this @genek? 4. Ariel Kirshbom: Was interesting to see the inclusion of project/program management into de rebellion, as often I have seen PMs be associated with the problem and not necessarily the solution. Would like to know more on PM participation on DevOps environment and as part of the rebellion 5. Caroline Lange: You mention project Unicorn in The Phoenix Project. Did you have the idea/structure (or log ideas) for The Unicorn Project book while you were writing the Phoenix? 6. Theo Studer: Question about the Third Ideal : How much should be invest in improvement over really doing the work ? Push to an extreme it would mean producing nothing and just theorising about the best way of doing things, which is not good, right ? 7. Quent: Do you have any relationship to Burr Sutter? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao87epknEbw . If yes, what are your thought differences and similaries on DevOps and Agile? 8. William Judd: Kirsten is clearly a force with which to be reckoned and her expertise is held in high regard. But "project management" in software development seems to be going away (there's no project manager in scrum, for example). Are you seeing anything like a "renaissance" of project management in areas like value stream management? 9. Kristian: How do you prevent having two departments in the same organization from having two drastically different practices in operations? Similar to how Maxine seemed to have been in a much more ready quiped team as oppose to what she experienced in the Phoenix project. 10. Keith Klundt: Dedicated, cross-functional teams probably gets the best attention in Accelerate on pp181-3 in the section that describes squads, chapters, etc, at ING Netherlands. I wonder if the Good Product Team described by Marty Cagan at SVPG is a construct that can be identified (or proven not to be critical)? In my experience, such teams, which are optimized for speed, trump other team forms. https://svpg.com/good-product-team-bad-product-team/ 11. JT Wall: One issue that I've seen organizations that have not gone through a transformation is that multiple people are effectively doing the same role. This manifests most clearly in the product management function. When Business and Technology still are considered separate from each other, then you effectively get two (or more) people providing pieces of the product management function, sometimes with conflicting overlaps. What ways have you seen this problem overcome? 12. Jerreck: Have you considered opening your own Dockside Bar? 13. Kristian Brito: you always seem to reference books in your responses, do you have a recommended book list somewhere and if so, an order in which to read those books? 14. Proctor: For clarification on the "how do we find the Erik for air cover" question, that you wanted to think about some: — In TPP: Bill quit because Steve wasn't listening to his recommendations, and it was Erik that pushed Steve into getting Bill back and doing the Feature Freeze — In TUP: Erik was in the Redshirts meet Executive Meeting that Maggie was presenting at, pushing for Horizon 2 & 3 projects — In the budget cut meeting, Steve cites "Erik was right" (not the others) about the Horizon 3 projects — Also in the Budget Cut meeting Erik guided them on how to do the budget cut deeper and more correctly to meet the goal in regards to Core vs Contex. — Steve didn't really seem to fully listen/accept what the others were telling him until Erik backed them up; which I am presuming was because his candidacy for being on the board of directors. — How does one find those that the executives will listen to until the rebellion has proven itself? 15. Philippe Guenet: I ran a large scale systemic workshop this week on Diversity - I am starting an effort on #Diversity4Digital based on the idea that the world of Digital is very unbalanced at the moment towards White/Male/Educated, yet Digital needs innovation and innovation needs Diversity. I am promoting conversations about diversity for people to embrace diversity rather than be forced into it (very unskilful approach from Corporates). The workshop has received fantastic echos which indicates that something has to be done on this subject and done better too. — I was wondering if there was some intentions about making the case for Diversity in TUP (apart from the obvious of having Maxine as the centre character) or if it was more about aligning to the typical standard in IT/Digital/Corporate leadership (which in reality and at Parts Unlimited seem to lack diversity). 16. Roman Pickl: How do the 5 ideals relate to the 3 ways? 17. Rainer Hansen: I have seen in many organizations a rush towards creating a solution before really trying to understand the problem. What are your recommendations for better understanding the problem and to cure such behavior. 18. Roman Pickl: What happened to Patty? She did so much of the heavy lifting in TPP. 19. Jess M: I have to know the story behind the dog names Waffles and Marshmallow.... I love them and I may need to steal them in the future 20. Andrew Pirie: What helps the Narwhal teams beat the incumbent DW team? It seems like they just blaze past them by sheer intrinsic brilliance with little explanation of how they achieved this success. — "Moreover, the Data Warehouse teams still haven't reconciled the different definitions of product, inventory, and customer from the physical stores and e-commerce stores. The newly created Narwhal teams were already way ahead of them." — Is it that the teams who develop and run the systems are responsible for cleaning and publishing reporting data, or they avoid trying to reconcile the differences, or overcome the reconciliation barriers through team work and positivity? — I’m an incumbent central [failing] Data Warehouse developer trying to reconcile our two key CRM systems for years. — I’ve recently seen a lit team of developers solve a problem I'd been struggling with by myself for a while - is that what's happening here? 21. Saman: Can you think of any instances where a Mainframe infrastructure team are practising in a DevOps organisation? 22. David P Moore: At the end of TUP, Maxine is thinking about rearchitecting the Data Hub using more of an event based approach. Can you talk more about that? I’m interested in what she is thinking about. Are there any real world examples you could point to? 23. Proctor: What's next? What should we be looking forward to? 24. Johan: Do you have diagrams to illustrate TUP or plan to have? 25. REL: My org is in the midst of a Devops transformation but doesn't realize it. The initiative is led by a x-finctional team of Dev QA and Ops in the RnD org. However, management has looked at this as a project to solve a tech problem and not a people problem. We (RnD) have implemented CI/CD from Dev to Staging environments and the blocker preventing us from achieving Continuous Deployment is simply The Fear felt by the Ops Silo of allowing Devs to deploy their own code to Production. We've reached a complete standstill as a result and are now at risk of losing our Devops Lead/Hero spearheading this initiative. What's the best advice from your experience in navigating such scenarios and creating the necessary consensus to help Ops to discover right division of R and R's and their newfound role in the "day after CI/CD" scenario? 26. Johan: Do you think the language in the book is easy enough, for people without english as their mother tongue? I really liked the book and it developed my vocabulary quite a bit, but it took some extra work. It was mainly the general language that was a bit difficult to understand with so many nuances.
@genek Thank's for an excellent book and everything at IT Rev! 😀 Do you think the language in the book is easy enough, for people without english as their mother tongue? I really liked the book and it developed my vocabulary quite a bit, but it took some extra work. It was mainly the general language that was a bit difficult to understand with so many nuances. With the Kindle app it was easy to look up unknown words, so perhaps you do it more often than necessary. But it’s nice to understand the details. I think I did it for one word per page. Swedish i my mother tongue, I have read about software for some 40 years and English novels even longer.
@genek Is there some errata for TUP? Not very important but I guess this must be one issue: ”Maggie sees Bill look up when his assistant Ellen lets her, Kurt, and Maggie into his office.” (Kindle Locations 5026-5027 in chapter 17).
@UNH35FT44 The next one will likely be Agile Conversations, but maybe we can look into it in the future.
Not that we're getting the hang of it (we have lots of ideas for how to improve the experience) we are considering offering more of them.
Awesome! I've been hosting an internal book club at Genesys since 2015 and could talk with you about our experiences if you like.
Thanks to everyone for making this happen! I believe that we've been able to witness a piece of magic.
Huge commitment from you Gene and Alex. Thoroughly appreciated all of the sessions and the ongoing community here, its helping moving us all towards focus, flow and joy!
Awesome news about keeping the slack open and the channels being archived! Really enjoyed the discussions! Thanks Gene, Alex, and the rest of the folks at ITR! 😄
Really appreciate all the kind words, everyone. I really love the community we've got here, and look forward to see what discussions take place between now and the next book club 🙂
@genek thanks for mentioning Pride and Joy! I picked up a few copies for kindred spirits here at our healthcare organization.